A Discussion on Neutrality

Mike Whelan

SG Hi SG, Ok, thank you for letting me know you are using an online translator. I’ll keep my sentences short and simple to make them more “machine translatable”. 😊

Point #1

You wrote: “The fact that we are going to die and that we can't do anything about it, just accept it.”

Yes, but there is much more to understanding death than just “accepting it”. When we simply accept something without thinking deeply about it, it is like giving up and not trying.

The real acceptance about death comes from an understanding about the cycle of life. When you imagine what you might feel like when a loved one dies. Or when you imagine what you might think or feel when you are on your death bed and death is moments away.

This imagining or thinking deeply about death and what it might be like – this begins to build an understanding. This starts down the path of understanding and acceptance.

Point #2

Yes, assumptions are an obstacle to neutrality. This is an important point, and you seem to understand it.

Your example of going to meet someone for the first time is a good example. You said, “It’s normal to have some assumptions”. That’s exactly what we are discussing, and it has to be un-learned.

When you start to have some ideas and notions about the coming meeting, explore those with your thinking but don’t form assumptions. It’s better to think, “it could be like this” or “It could be like that” but when you actually get to the meeting, then you place all that aside, and experience things AS THEY ARE.

This means not to bring your ideas and notions you thought of before to the foreground, so they shade or color everything in the present moment.

Point #3

You question: “What kind of thoughts should we meditate or cultivate in order to have a more neutral attitude, specifically in relation to expectations?”

The goal of meditation is the absence of thought. – I think this might be a translation problem or I don’t understand this point. Feel free to post a question on meditation here: https://forum.futureofmankind.co.uk/d/54-general-questions-on-the-spiritual-teaching

It’s not about what thoughts we should cultivate in order to be more neutral. It’s about understanding how our thinking works.

It’s about understanding what things make us react. It’s about understanding WHY we feel like we do when something makes us upset.

It’s not about changing our thinking. It’s about understanding our thinking.

I hope these answers are short and simple enough for deepl translator. 😊

Salome,
Mike

SG

Hi Mike, Thank you for the clarifications to my questions, and above all considering that I am using a translator. 🙂

If I'm honest with you, point number 1 and 2 were quite clear to me, I think "experience things AS THEY ARE." It is the most important thing regarding expectations, thanks for explaining it. 😃

However, in point 3 I think I cannot fully understand/grasp what you mention. Here you indicate that "It's about understanding how our thinking works. It's about understanding what things make us react. It's about understanding WHY we feel like we do when something makes us upset."
If I'm honest, I think I can't really understand why it's important identify the "WHY we think (or feel) the way we think, feel."
My interpretation is: when you say "why" you are looking for an answer, you are looking to understand a process of cause and effect. And there may well be thousands of different causes that generate a particular effect. Let's suppose that a person goes to the SSSC, and suddenly he/she feels very negative energies, or negative thoughts and she wants to attack Billy. She is aware that she is feeling negative, but understanding the why is not very helpful to her. (a reference to the evil energies, telenotic impulses, intentionally directed I believe by Giza intelligences to certain members or individuals in the past). Yes, it won't happen again. Example n2: You go to a church and you feel very bad without knowing why,(fluidal energies). I don't know if it helps to be neutral in those moments or to investigate why one feels like that.

So I think It is more useful consider that we can recognise or being AWARE that we are having a negative/positive reaction or a non-neutral approach to someone or something, and then correct it. It is as you indicate in post n 21 in relation to meditation and attention
"We recognize that our attention is not on the breath and bring our attention back to the breath to start over again. It’s similar in that our attention on neutrality"

Salome,
Sergio

Paul

Hi Sergio,

I think it is mentioned somewhere in the earlier contact reports or one of the books that your thoughts and the feelings arising from them must be constantly monitored to see of what kind they are, either positive, negative or neutral.

So, what you have said here:

"So I think It is more useful consider that we can recognise or being AWARE that we are having a negative/positive reaction or a non-neutral approach to someone or something, and then correct it."

This would seem to be correct with that in my view.

Mike Whelan

SG Hi SG,
I am so happy!

You said, “If I'm honest, I think I can't really understand why it's important identify the "WHY we think (or feel) the way we think, feel."

Please let’s hold this question for a few days. I will answer it in a few days.

Please read Paul’s response to you and also may response to Paul and you. What do you understand about what he wrote?

Salome,
Mike

Mike Whelan

Paul Hi Paul,
Nice of you to post again. 😊 Thank you for your early discussions on this thread. It was helpful to kick things off.

SG: I completely agree with Paul.

Paul wrote: “I think it is mentioned somewhere in the earlier contact reports or one of the books that your thoughts and the feelings arising from them must be constantly monitored to see of what kind they are, either positive, negative or neutral.”

SG: If you deepL translate what Paul wrote above, what is your understanding of what he wrote?

He is 100% right on what you need to learn and then practice.

Thank you Paul for posting here again. 😊

Salome,
Mike

Paul

Mike Whelan

Hi Mike and Sergio,

I found the reference for you.

Contact Report 10

https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_010

Hence, a self-analysis of the individual human being is one of the most essential methods for finding the truth and for going the way of the consciousness-based and spiritual evolution.
Thus, it is necessary that the human being continuously checks his/her thoughts and sees what kind they really are.

Also in narrated video form by:

FIGU-Interessengruppe für Missionswissen England

Title: Billy Meier: Introduction to the Spiritual Teaching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6aOtTkViqE

🙂

Mike Whelan

Hi 8877,
Thank you for posting and thank you for writing about what your experiences dictate to you. You have some interesting points of view that I hadn’t thought about before.

I like what you said here: “So do it your own way…” I think this way too.

Have you experienced shy, overcautious, overcareful, afraid even, stunting growth effect types of things or how do you know about it?
Thank you for starting an interesting discussion.

All the best,
Mike

Paul

Daniel/8877 or who ever you are maybe you could do something constructive and answer this question.

How does one remain neutral in the presence of an obvious Troll?

🙂

Mike Whelan

Paul and Daniel (8877),

I think this is important that we discuss your last 2 posts but not in the Discussion on Neutrality thread. I have posted a new discussion called “Thoughts and Feelings about Others” here: https://forum.futureofmankind.co.uk/d/75-thoughts-and-feelings-about-others

I hope you will both join me for a discussion there.

Salome,
Mike

Paul

Hi Mike,

There is no animosity from me however, I do not wish to talk about it any further as nothing useful will come from it.

That is all I have to say on the matter.

My apologies to you!

Paul

SG

Hi Mike

What is your opinion regarding the swinging waves of sympathy or antipathy. I remember reading something about this once but I don't remember where.
Would it be correct to say that if a person feels sympathy for another, he/she should control these impulses and neutralize them? In the neutrality video you have mentioned examples where we react negatively when we dislike someone, but what happens in the opposite case? When we like someone, we are attracted to someone, and this clouds our judgment?

Salome

Mike Whelan

SG Hi Sergio,

Thank you for your post and questions.

You seem very interested in The Teaching of the Truth and I remember you mentioned you don’t speak English. I just posted a new forum thread here: https://forum.futureofmankind.co.uk/d/76-request-a-live-qa Do you think you could read this post and response?

Question #1 - What is your opinion regarding the swinging waves of sympathy or antipathy? There are a very large number of swinging waves. I’m considering making a short video on this subject due to this question. Please give me a few days to consider the project.

Question #2 - Would it be correct to say that if a person feels sympathy for another, he/she should control these impulses and neutralize them?

The basic answer is no but there is much more to it. One doesn’t neutralize the waves, we neutralize our reaction or response to the waves. But this point is several steps down the path, so to speak, so let’s back up and talk about “when a person feels sympathy for another”.

The first and most important thing to know is where did this feeling of sympathy come from? Feelings are preceded by thinking. Did one of your thoughts create this feeling of sympathy? If you answer yes or no, how do you KNOW that? Does the person remind you of someone else, maybe a friend or family member? Could this memory have created the feeling of sympathy?

Of course, swinging waves also come from other people. How do you know if the feeling or the waves came from you or the other person? Could they have come from a nearby person or someone on the other side of the world?

The most important, and first step is to KNOW how and where the feeling of sympathy came from. This is the internal work that only you yourself can do.

Do you remember a few days ago when you asked: “If I'm honest, I think I can't really understand why it's important identify the "WHY we think (or feel) the way we think, feel." and I said I would answer it in a few days? Today is the day.

Step #1 - How would you know what to do with a feeling of sympathy if you have no idea where it came from? You need to be able to answer the question: “why do I have this feeling of sympathy?” The first step is to KNOW, not think or believe, why do you have this feeling of sympathy and where did it come from?

Step #2 – After you have spent some days or weeks thinking and researching within yourself, you might have some basic or simple understanding of how and why the feeling of sympathy came up. Then the next question is: “how do you KNOW that?” Our personalities and egos are very, very tricky and can make you think you have the answers but in reality, you don’t. You have to learn to sift through these “tricks of the mind” in order to get to a real answer.

Step #3 – Then you have to test your theory or new understanding. The things that you have learned from steps 1 & 2 now have to be applied in your everyday life. You have to test your new understanding and see if it is like you think, or maybe needs some modification or maybe you need to build a completely new understanding.

These are some of the reasons why it’s important to know how we think and feel.

Does this answer your question or does anything need more clarification?

Salome,
Mike

Mike Whelan

SG
Hi Sergio,

A few days ago, you asked this question, “What is your opinion regarding the swinging waves of sympathy or antipathy?”

Then I answered, “There are a very large number of swinging waves. I’m considering making a short video on this subject due to this question. Please give me a few days to consider the project.”

Today I decided not to make a video on swinging waves, but I will post an answer here so we can continue the discussion about swinging waves. I began writing the next video entitled “What is Self-realization?” and should have it finalized by the end of the week.

I want to confess, I don’t know very much about fluidal forces or swinging waves and these types of things, but I can certainly write what I understand about them at this moment.

Your Question: “What is your opinion regarding the swinging waves of sympathy or antipathy?”

Swinging Waves are a type of Fluidal Radiation. They are emitted from all human beings and are created by our consciousness which includes thinking, feeling, emotions, the Psyche, and they are created by all activity within our consciousness. Swinging waves are also created by Impulses such as rage, hatred and jealousy. Swinging Waves are the Fluidal Powers that are stored in personal objects.

It’s possible for human beings to perceive Swinging Waves, by this I mean people can “pick up on them” or “feel” them type of thing. It’s possible to learn to distinguish the Swing Waves in order to determine the character or feelings of another person.

Because Swinging Waves are created by our thinking and feelings, when we think and have feelings, Swinging Waves are created and move out from us and radiate into the environment and then strike other human beings. This is how our thinking and feeling affects other human beings without us doing anything physical to them.

Love is a VERY powerful Swinging Wave. In the Goblet of Truth it says True Love is the greatest energy and power Swinging Wave. If we were to grow our Love, those Swinging Waves would affect our fellow humans very profoundly.

To the core of your question:

Yes, when we like someone and we are attracted to them, that’s when we must start to ask ourselves questions like: Why do I feel attracted to them? Where did the feeling come from? Is it a true feeling or just a sexual attraction? We have to ask ourselves questions like this in order to determine what our attraction to the other person really is. We have to clarify the feelings within ourselves. We have to understand WHY we are attracted. It’s the only way to get to the root of the matter.

Does this answer your question? If no, please tell me. 😊

Salome,
Mike

SG

Hello Mike

Thank you for your very detailed answers.
This is starting to get a little more complex and I'm going to think about it a little more.

Salome,
Sergio

Mike Whelan

SG
Hi Sergio,

My pleasure, no worries, take your time. 😊

Salome,
Mike

Daniel

Hi Mike. Here I post the question you asked me. I hope it is understood, since it is translated into English by the translator Deepl.
This quote from the end of Billy:
"Anyway, having an opinion is always wrong because that opinion is always based solely on assumptions, but never on absolute certainty which is based solely on actual truth."

I'm confused by this other quote that appears in one of Billy's quote videos:
"There is hardly a human being who does not find contradiction when he has his own opinion and walks his own path. But he who has no opinion of his own and does not go his own way is nothing but a servile follower of the opinions and ways of others, and a model for the one who knows how to impose himself with his opinion and ways and despise others.
Therefore, every human being must dare, and strive, to have his own opinion and walk his own path. However, he who does not dare to do so inhibits his own progress, will never win and will be an eternal loser. As the old, classic proverb says: "The world belongs to the brave, so you must have your own opinion and walk your own path."

And this other quote from Billy:
"No one has the right to interfere with the opinion of another human being simply because he or she has a different opinion."

In Contact Report 835, Ptaah also talks about how having an opinion is always wrong. Although I think he means having an opinion being biased or fair to political parties, religious parties, etc. Because there it would not be a neutral or true opinion. But it is still an opinion. That confuses me.

I know that opinion does not represent reality, but having an opinion helps to find truth and certainty. Because that opinion can change over time and you get true reality and certainty. That's what I see in Billy's quote.
So you get an opinion that corresponds to reality, and thus real truth, a certainty. Because no one is born neutral and giving a neutral opinion, everything is learned and experienced in the evolution of consciousness.
Opinion is part of the definition of freedom of expression, otherwise what would be the difference?

Thanks for the invitation Mike, this is my first post. And thanks to the forum members for their contributions and questions. You learn a lot and it helps to understand many things to apply them in conscience and experience them.
A hug to all. Salome

Mike Whelan

Daniel
Hi Daniel,

Thank you for the questions. Yes, I know you speak Spanish and use DeepL to translate your questions into English. No problem, I will do my best to write simply so the translation back to Spanish has a good chance to be accurate.

Let’s start with defining the word “opinion”. Below are 2 definitions of the word:

Dictionary.com - a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
Oxford dictionary - a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

You wrote above: “I know that opinion does not represent reality…” – ok good, so we both understand that an opinion is: a judgement that we have made that does not represent reality”.

A question to think about: Why would you form a judgement about something if you knew the judgement was not real or true?

The 1st quote from Billy is about someone who does not think for themself. He is making an example of someone who doesn’t have their own opinion and only listens to the ideas and opinions of others and then repeats them like they are his own. This means the person is not thinking for himself, he is just following the opinions and ideas of others. Because of this, the person is not thinking for himself and therefore not evolving.
The 2nd quote from Billy is about not interfering with the opinion of another person. Billy is saying that it is not right to speak badly about the opinions of another person. Every human being has the right to freedom of expression which includes the freedom to hold opinions without interference. Simply stated: It’s not right to tell someone their opinion is wrong. It’s their opinion, they have the right and freedom to hold their opinion.

The 2 quotes from Billy that you provided are not about the same thing. They are about different things.

To the core of your question:

An opinion is a formed judgement or view about a particular subject. Because the formed judgement is not based on truth, it doesn’t correspond to reality.

The question from above: Why would you form a judgement about something if you knew the judgement was not real or true?

When we form opinions, we always consider them to be correct. But they are not. And from these opinions further thinking and feelings are generated and more opinions are formed in our mind which leads us further from the truth.

It would be better not to form opinions but this is difficult for most people. It would be better to observe and to experience life in a neutral way without passing judgements. Then, after a long time of collecting experience and thinking seriously and honestly about something, then you can make an assessment of something.

Then after you have made this assessment and you want to offer your assessment to others, put it forward in a neutral way without politicizing it. Offer it in a neutral way without you personally being for or against the particular idea.

Does this answer your question? If no, please tell me.

Salome,
Mike

Daniel

Mike Whelan Hi Mike, thanks for responding.
"Dictionary.com - a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. "
I agree with this definition. That is why I wrote: "I know that opinion does not represent reality, but having an opinion helps to find truth and certainty. Because that opinion can change over time and you get true reality and certainty. That's what I see in Billy's quote." The same happens with consciousness and thoughts, they are changing and evolving.
So, if I have a formed opinion of something, that would be my "truth" up to that moment. But, if I listen to another person's opinion, I can analyze with my own conscience, thinking, reasoning, logic, intellect, intelligence, knowledge and wisdom, and see if what the person says makes sense or not. And it allows me to see things that I did not see that help me to understand more and get closer to the real truth, therefore to obtain a certainty. That is what I see in Billy's quote. And if I do not agree with someone else's opinion, respect it and do not interfere in their opinion. That this would be what Billy explains in the other quote.

An example of that would be this forum. The great majority write their opinion, judgment, belief, either to give their opinion or to learn and advance to a truth or certainty in some specific topic and that helps the person and all the participants of the forum, there is a feedback. And when you say, "It would be better not to form opinions" Then, no one would be able to write their opinions, beliefs or judgments on the forum, and therefore, no one would learn or arrive at a truth, if that were the case.

I think that would answer the question: why would you form a judgment about something if you knew the judgment was not real or true? Although rather than a judgment, it would be an opinion or an expression of thought.

Which brings me to the question I asked above: What would be the difference between freedom of expression and opinion?
When the definition of freedom of expression says: "Freedom of expression is a fundamental human right that allows people to express their opinions freely without any legal reprimand".
"Freedom of expression is the fundamental right of people to freely say, express and disseminate what they think without being harassed. It is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or collective to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of reprisal, censorship or subsequent sanction."

And you said so too: "Every human being has the right to freedom of expression which includes the freedom to hold opinions without interference."

So, what is the difference between freedom of expression and opinion, if it is part of the same thing?

A hug, Salome.

Mike Whelan

Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for further explaining your points. I think I understand your point of view more clearly. Of course, we could also have some language barrier problems, but let’s see how far we can go. 😊

Let’s concentrate on 1 point so we can get closer to understanding each other.

I think our understanding of what opinion means is different. As an example, let me change the word “opinion” to “belief”, since we have already agreed that the definition of opinion is:

“a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."

So, if we change the word “opinion” to “belief” in what you wrote it would read: "I know that belief does not represent reality, but having a belief helps to find truth and certainty.”

Do you still agree with your statement above with the substitute words? Whether you answer yes or no, could you explain why you gave your answer? This would help me to understand your thinking.

After we get through the meaning of the word opinion, we can go through the rest of your questions.

A hug back to you!

Salome,
Mike

Daniel

Mike Whelan Hi Mike, thanks again for responding.
I think the understanding is the same, since we share the same definition of opinion. However, the point of view might be different.
From what I understand, you say that one should not give an opinion because the opinion is based on insufficient grounds and therefore, it is not a truth, let alone a certainty. Which I also agree with because it is a truth, I agree that this is so. But under that condition, as I was saying in the example of the forum, or in this answer that you give me: "I think I understand your point of view more clearly.", "I think our understanding of what opinion means is different." these phrases as an example, and many others in the forum, should not be given because it is an opinion or belief and by what we understand of opinion is "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty." That is the point, do I make myself understood? And when it says: "It would be better not to form opinions" Then, it would not be possible to do what we are doing now, to reach an understanding, comprehension and a truth that leads us to a complete certainty. It is a bit contradictory and confusing. Don't you think?

That's where my confusion comes from, or what I can't understand, of Billy's words about Opinion, since in several sentences he approves it and in other sentences he disapproves it. Perhaps the sentences in which he approves the opinion were said many years ago, and the sentences in which he disapproves it are more recent, possibly because he changed his opinion or thoughts with more certainty.
That is why I am interested in clarifying this confusion and understanding the subject of the opinion.

And if I agree with the change of the word "opinion", for the word "belief", let's see if I can understand from that side.
Because as I was saying, opinion and belief change with time, as well as consciousness and thoughts. And this is part of our advancement, it helps us to evolve in consciousness, therefore it is necessary to go through those impulses. The same creative days show it. It is necessary to go through those impulses of beliefs to experience and evolve our consciousness, thinking, reasoning, logic, intellect, intelligence, etc. We all go through that. Nobody and nothing jumps in creation. Then, as it will not be necessary to have an opinion or a belief to go learning, experiencing and elevating and evolving our consciousness impulses?

I thank you very much for your time, patience, understanding and willingness to help me understand.
A big hug. Salome.

Mike Whelan

Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for writing your thoughts and views. I really appreciate it because I get to learn a lot too as we progress through our discussion.

Point #1

You said, “I think the understanding is the same, since we share the same definition of opinion.”

I do not agree with your statement so please let me explain my thinking.

The definition of opinion that we share is a fixed description. By this I mean the definition will not change. We can look in the dictionary today, tomorrow and a month from now and the definition will be the same.

An understanding of something is completely different. An understanding changes over time and can deepen. For example, when beginning meditation and after 6 months, we have a certain understanding of meditation. Then after 3 years we can have a deeper understanding of meditation through practice and insight. Then after 10 years of meditation we can have an even deeper understanding of meditation. The understanding of meditation can deepen, the definition of Meditation does not change.

I disagree with your point about “the understanding is the same because we share the same definition”. However, I do agree with you that our points of view are very different. 😊

Point #2

From what you wrote above, I believe you are stating that I shouldn’t provide answers in the forum or make videos and similar things because they are an opinion. Have I understood you correctly?

If yes, then we again have a very different point of view. Please let me explain my work on the Billy Meier Books channel and here on this forum.

I am not providing my opinion on the Billy Meier Books channel and here on this forum. An opinion, as we both agree, is not truth and not certainty. I’m simply offering my experience and my understanding of the Teaching of the Truth.

Without going into deep details, I have been studying Billy’s work for more than 33 years. My studies have not been light reading or searching through the contact notes. I have read and thought and asked questions and learned German and asked more questions and have dedicated a very large portion of my life to learning. (This is the short version of 33 years 😊)

The Billy Meier Books channel and recently this forum is my attempt to share my knowledge and understanding of the teachings. My public work is not an opinion. It is my direct experience, my understanding and my truth. Sharing an experience in life is not the same as an opinion. Simply stated: It is my attempt to share my truth and my understanding with other students who may be interested.

Yes, we have a very different point of view again.

Point #3

Finally, I think we have a point we agree on! 😊

I understand now. Your point was: opinions and beliefs and consciousness and thoughts and everything else changes and evolves over time. Yes, I agree!

My point was: opinions shouldn’t be made in the first place, but we can leave this for now. I think we are close enough on this point.

Daniel, I also want to thank you for your time, patience and understanding. I’m really enjoying our conversation and learning a lot about you and how you think. It is so interesting for me.

Hugs to you!

Salome,
Mike

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