Hey there Liddz,

Long time no see, welcome back to the club of Pi = 3.1446 horseshit morons, all certifiable quacks, trying to shove their Pi = 3.1446 horseshit down the FIGU Community throats, in, of all places, a Billy Meier forum intended to discuss Billy Meier's information about Pi not your goddam Pi = 3.1446 horseshit, which, by the way, Billy Meier nor the Plejaren have EVER endorsed just that goddam piece of shit FIGU Core member Christian Frehner foolishly endorsed Harry Lear's Pi = 3.1446 horseshit and his side-kick dressed in tights, one of the Pi-Radical morons, Michael Horn, all of whom supported Harry Lear's Pi = 3.1446 horseshit.

Since we're together now, I suggest we all pay homage to the one man responsible for bringing us together and that would be that lying bag-of-shit Christen Frehner who, as a FIGU Core member, in 2017 published a FIGU article, on behalf of the FIGU Mission, falsely stating to the FIGU Community, that Harry Lear's Pi = 3.1446 was the true and correct Pi value, when neither Billy Meier nor the Plejaren have ever stated the true and correct of Pi, and in fact in 2019, two years later, Billy Meier in CR #722 states the true and correct Pi remains UNKNOWN to Earth humans.

….so in respect of Christian Frehner foolish and stupid contribution to the FIGU Mission, for spreading lies to the FIGU Community, let us all now bow down and pay homage to the great and magnificent Christian Frehner because without his endorsement of Pi = 3.1446 horseshit, none of us would be here right now, so thank you shit-for-brains Christian Frehner for listening to that goddam moron Harry Lear's Pi = 3.1446 horseshit instead of trusting Billy Meier. Well done you goddam moron ….

Now back to business, Liddz where have you been? Did they leave the insane asylum doors open and you managed to sneak by the guards? You know I find it interesting, none of you dipshits actually care about what Billy Meier has to say about Pi do you! NO, you goddam know-it-all pieces-of-shit, you're all just a bunch of shit-for-brains morons, arrogantly shoving your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit down the throats of the FIGU Community.

You Pi – Radicals are disgusting, all of you pieces of shit, showing no respect for Billy Meier's information about Pi, and that applies to everyone of you assholes, especially Harry Lear who started this goddam bullshit in the first place. Ever wonder why no one intelligent believes in your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit, well its because they're intelligent and all of you have shit-for-brains, that's really the honest to god truth. You Pi-Radicals are too stupid to understand Pi = 3.1446 is impossible and you're so goddam arrogant pushing your Lies lacking proper skills in mathematics.

How could someone like Harry Lear, who is so goddam stupid, collect such a swarm of idiots supporting his Pi = 3.1446 horseshit in the FIGU Community when Billy Meier nor the Plejaren have EVER endorsed a true and correct Pi value which Billy Meiers states in UNKNOWN to Earth humans in 2019, CR 722. What part of that don't you understand you goddam dipshits?

Liddz I can only deal with one dipshit moron at a time but nice job there sparky copy/pasting the same pile of useless Pi = 3.1446 horseshit you always post, mindless goddam nonsense as usual about as productive and informative as Jude.bug's calculator screen images.

Now back to HRBoT (Harry leaR Bag-of-Tricks),

This is absolutely the last time I'm going show you why your latest "B"ee's Pi = 3.1446 horseshit is bullshit and just another fake/fraud proof in an never ending string of nonsense from you dipshits with grade-school level math. Although I've already explained the flaw in your logic you're too stupid to understand what should be obvious. No wonder intellectuals, skilled in mathematics, call all you Pi-Radicals 'Quacks' – and all you Pi – Radials know that true. Its really what you bozo's really are; a bunch of high-school math educated know-it-all quacks, no smarter than a bag of hammers.

Anyway HRBoT, appreciate the shitty explanation of your "Bee's" Pi = 3.1446 horseshit proof but you still haven't answered the simple question properly because you obviously don't understand the flaw in your logic and why it incorrect. You're proposed solution is actually really stupid, which may explain why your too afraid to show this "B"ee's proof to anyone intelligent.

You have one unknown variable 'b' which you are trying to solve and you know absolutely nothing about so you think you can just solve for 'b' right out of thin air?

Here is a simple analogy of how ridiculous your solution is. If you are able to solve for 'b' out of thin air then how about this, I'm thinking of a number 'g'. When 'g' is squared its value is g2. So now you tell me what number am I thinking of? Do your fancy right-triangle inscribed in a semicircle calculation smart-ass! Well lets work through it together. The number I was think of was g = 0.70.

Similar to your method, to solve for 'b', lets assign g to the long leg of a right triangle. Then lets assign g2 to the short leg of a right-triangle and we'll also assume the hypotenuse equal to 1. How lovely, we've now assumed values for every leg of the right-triangle and it’s a piece-of-cake to solve with all these wonderful convenient illogical assumptions.

Knowing the hypothesis is 1, and the long-leg of the right-triangle is 'g = 0.70', the short-leg of the right-triangle, g2, is 0.7141 calculated using Pythagoras theorem, but just wait a minute here, the actual value for g2 = 0.72 = 0.49 not 0.7141. How could that be, I followed your instructions perfectly?

The 3-legs of a right-triangle have specific lengths that must be numerically correct in portion to the geometry of a right-triangle. Therefore you may, assign any two legs of a right-triangle to whatever value your little heart desires from which the length of the remaining 3rd side may be calculated using Pythagoras theorem.

So as stated, it is valid to assign two sides of a right-triangle any random value or variable. So the unknown variable 'b' may be set equal to the length of the long-leg of a right-triangle and, the hypotenuse may also be set equal to '1' however nothing is known about nor may be inferred regarding the length of the 3rd side.

In your right-triangle, nothing is known about the actual length of the 3rd short-leg. You cannot assume the length of the 3rd leg is b2 without first proving this is a valid assumption. As I had originally stated, if you assume the log and short-legs of a right triangle are b and b2 respectively, then you cannot assume the hypotenuse is equal to '1' but you didn't have a clue to what I was referring.

If you still don't understand why your logic is wrong, after this exhaustive explanation a child could understand, then happy trails there sparky, never mind, just would like to end by congratulating you for having proven your latest Pi = 3.1446 "B"ees horseshit is valid to at least one person; your own arrogant self.

Perhaps try reading CR 251 where Billy Meier states very clearly,

The true and correct Pi value is finally solved by Earth's brilliant scientists while they are working together frantically to save our dying Sun

..therefore it may be logically concluded,

The true and correct Pi will NOT be solved by the dip-shit Harry Lear in his garage with a round wooden disk and his fancy measuring tape





  • C.B. replied to this.

    Hush ou Pi – Radicals are disgusting, all of you pieces of shit, showing no respect for Billy Meier's information about Pi, and that applies to everyone of you assholes, especially Harry Lear who started this goddam bullshit in the first place.

    Are you showing respect for Billy Meier and Christian Frehner?
    Did you contact Frehner personally to tell him about your profound insights?
    I guess no, otherwise you wouldn’t be posting here under pseudonym.

    Hush Although I've already explained the flaw in your logic you're too stupid to understand what should be obvious.

    No, you didn’t Moron.

    Hush You have one unknown variable 'b' which you are trying to solve and you know absolutely nothing about so you think you can just solve for 'b' right out of thin air?

    If you really have a degree in Math, which I doubt very much, you should give it back with apologies.

    “b” is not an unknown variable, it is π/4 its nominal value.
    The derivation is done to find out its numerical value.
    That’s why you can’t take any hypotenuse, btw.

    Hush Here is a simple analogy of how ridiculous your solution is. If you are able to solve for 'b' out of thin air then how about this, I'm thinking of a number 'g'. When 'g' is squared its value is g2. So now you tell me what number am I thinking of? Do your fancy right-triangle inscribed in a semicircle calculation smart-ass! Well lets work through it together. The number I was think of was g = 0.70.

    I hope you’re not teaching Math somewhere on this Planet.

    4b=π is not taken out of thin air but your assumption of b=0.7.
    0.7 has no relationship to anything

    Hush Similar to your method, to solve for 'b', lets assign g to the long leg of a right triangle. Then lets assign g2 to the short leg of a right-triangle and we'll also assume the hypotenuse equal to 1. How lovely, we've now assumed values for every leg of the right-triangle and it’s a piece-of-cake to solve with all these wonderful convenient illogical assumptions.

    It is not similar to my method, not even remotely. You have indeed no method.
    You even assign a value to g before you solve your “derivation” ………..And derivation of what exactly ?

    You go on quadrating g and assume, arbitrarily, the hypotenuse being 1 although you can't do that.

    Hush Knowing the hypothesis is 1, and the long-leg of the right-triangle is 'g = 0.70', the short-leg of the right-triangle, g2, is 0.7141 calculated using Pythagoras theorem, but just wait a minute here, the actual value for g2 = 0.72 = 0.49 not 0.7141.

    You should better go teaching typewriting in some housewife’s school .

    Hush How could that be, I followed your instructions perfectly?

    How could that be?
    Simply because you’re a shameless, malignant hypocrite and willfully ignorant.
    That’s how.

    Hush The 3-legs of a right-triangle have specific lengths that must be numerically correct in portion to the geometry of a right-triangle. Therefore you may, assign any two legs of a right-triangle to whatever value your little heart desires from which the length of the remaining 3rd side may be calculated using Pythagoras theorem.

    The legs b and b2 are nominallycorrect and have a defined value, not arbitrary. And, according to this nominal value we choose hypotenuse =1 to keep b=π/4
    As you can easily see all three sides of the triangle are knownand we only have to operate to find out the numerical value of b.
    The derivation is already solved by setting 4b=π.
    A wonderfully simple derivation of the real value of π

    Hush In your right-triangle, nothing is known about the actual length of the 3rd short-leg.

    Of course it is known.
    Your ignorance is obscene.

    Hush You cannot assume the length of the 3rd leg is b2 without first proving this is a valid assumption.

    I don’t have a reason to assume anything.
    b2 is the area of the square 4b.
    I have b and its quadratic value b2. Why shouldn’t I solve by Pythagoras when I know too that the Hypotenuse is 1 ?
    You have no clue, boy!

    Hush As I had originally stated, if you assume the log and short-legs of a right triangle are b and b2 respectively, then you cannot assume the hypotenuse is equal to '1' but you didn't have a clue to what I was referring.

    I know the nonsense you were referring to but, again, the Hypotenuse is not an assumption. It is the only value for the H that keeps the nominal value of b as π/4, simply because b is calculated for a circle of diameter 1.
    If you don’t understand these evident facts then go and try plying dice.

                          Well HRBoT (Harry leaR Bag-of-Tricks),

                          I know you think you're very smart, but do tell, why can't you convince anyone intelligent, someone who is accredited and skilled in mathematics, that your "B"ee's horseshit is valid - huh? Why is that dumb ass! Well its because you're a goddam stupid moron unable to comprehend the flaws in his own logic and why an intelligent person knows you're a quake. That's why you only hang-out with other Pi - Radical quake morons like yourself.

                          Just trying to help you understand but you're so goddam stupid its beyond hope helping you understand the truth, but don't take my word for it, go get a second opinion, oh yeah forgot, you're a pussy-ass scared little bitch, too afraid to go talk to someone intelligent, and learn the truth. There are 23,080,000 professionals, accredited in mathematics, any of whom you could talk to about your "B"ee's Pi = 3.1446 horseshit, all of whom will tell you you're a crack-pot. So, do what you do best, dumb-ass, just keep hanging out with your Pi-Radical moron dip-shits playing pretend mathematics and congratulating each other on how smart you are, its all you're good for really - nothing else, that and coloring. What a lying bag-of-shit, bozo the clown, moron (LOL). The FIGU Community is infected with dip-shit brainwashed Pi = 3.1446 horseshit morons, including two influencers, Christian Frehener and Michael Horn, and this time, its way worse than Covid (LOL).






                          • C.B. replied to this.

                            Hush I know you think you're very smart, but do tell, why can't you convince anyone intelligent, someone who is accredited and skilled in mathematics, that your "B"ee's horseshit is valid - huh? Why is that dumb ass! Well its because you're a goddam stupid moron unable to comprehend the flaws in his own logic and why an intelligent person knows you're a quake. That's why you only hang-out with other Pi - Radical quake morons like yourself.

                            You wrote a pile of nonsense!
                            What are you talking about now?
                            Not only don’t understand Math….You can’t even read a text correctly.

                            Do you play with yourself during the chat?

                              Now HRBoT (Harry leaR Bag-of-Tricks),

                              Here's what you need to do, stop wasting your time showing me your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit because we both know what that accomplishes - right! So if you're ever going to get anywhere with your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit proof, you're going to have to go outside, and find someone intelligent to show it to. So grab your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit proof which you can write down in a few lines, a clean shirt, a nice clean Depends, take your "B"ee's Pi = 3.1446 horseshit proof, and present it to anyone of 23,080,000 academics accredited in mathematics to get a second opinion. You really have no other strategy. And again, shit-for-brains HRBoT, showing me your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit proof is a complete and total waste of time, you should know that by now if you had any brains (LOL).






                              • C.B. replied to this.

                                Now now HRBoT (Harry leaR Bag-of-Tricks),

                                No need to get excited, but you may want to check your Depends just in case you didn't have an accident, I'm just here trying to help you learn the TRUTH according to Billy Meier. Seriously, you know goddam well what I think of you endearingly as a goddam lying bag-of-shit, who has infected the FIGU Community with your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit lies, but don't take it personally.

                                You see if you read and understood Billy Meier's Contact Report the truth is very very clear to anyone with a clean conscious. In CR 251 Billy states there is an error in Pi and that the true value of Pi will be solved by Earth's brilliant scientists who work frantically trying to save our dying sun. That's when the error in Pi is actually solved.

                                Then in CR 712, Ptaah states that an 'instrumentarium', not yet invented, is required to solve for the error in Pi. Ptaah also states that traditional Pi = 3.14159 is VALID for all round and circular calculations in both math and physic's. So if traditional Pi may be used for ALL round and circular calculations in both math and physic's it should be obvious traditional Pi must be pretty goddam accurate, because there is a lot of highly precision computations on Earth that rely on a valid Pi number which traditional Pi is according to Ptaah.

                                Add to what Ptaah states that traditional Pi = 3.14159 is valid, and also consider that 23,080,000 academics accredited in mathematics will also tell you traditional Pi = 3.14159 is valid and that Pi = 3.1446 is complete and total horseshit.

                                Then in CR 722, in 2019, Bill states very clearly the true and correct Pi is UNKNOWN so you goddam dip shits who have been claiming the true and correct Pi = 3.1446, are obviously wrong and misguided. The true and correct Pi = 3.1446 is impossible, if Billy states its currently UNKNOWN on Earth.

                                From which may be concluded, literally no one in the entire world with intelligence, agrees with your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit other than a few morons and dipshits much like yourself with a high school or less, math level education. Anyway there you have. You and your Pi-Radical bozos will never be able to prove Pi = 3.1446 because its physically impossible and that's why, going on 8-years now, you have nothing credible.

                                So you can keep posting your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit in here, I'm sure you will, in this Billy Meier Pi discussion forum, but guarantee it wont change a thing, and you will never, until your dying day, ever get recognized for proving Pi = 3.1446 because its physically impossible and you're just too goddam stupid to realize it.







                                • C.B. replied to this.

                                  Hush You see if you read and understood Billy Meier's Contact Report the truth is very very clear to anyone with a clean conscious. In CR 251 Billy states there is an error in Pi and that the true value of Pi will be solved by Earth's brilliant scientists who work frantically trying to save our dying sun. That's when the error in Pi is actually solved.

                                  This is just a statement.
                                  But, nuts as you are, you try to pass it here as some divine commandment. It is not.
                                  You're boring.

                                    HRBoT (Harry leaR Bag-of-Tricks),

                                    If I'm boring, that's your opinion, but more importantly I'm TRUTHFULLY sharing Billy Meier's information about Pi, and Billy has NEVER endorsed Pi = 3.1446, whereas you, you lying bag-of-shit, are here to only deceive, misguide and lie, in order to push your brainwashed Pi = 3.1446 horseshit agenda which you keep trying to shove down our throats - but your effort will never be successful. No matter how hard you try traditional Pi = 3.14159 will prevail and will continue to be used for another several hundred years until our Sun starts dying and Earth's brilliant scientists work together to solve the problem and thereby solve the error in Pi so nothing you do now, will change the Earth from using traditional Pi = 3.14159. Albeit you've tried, but have been totally unsuccessful haven't you, after 8-years of trying still nothing, and you will continue to fail to prove Pi = 3.1446, indefinitely, you and all your Pi - Radicals dressed in tights. Goddam bozos no smarter than a bag of hammers.




                                    • C.B. replied to this.

                                      Hush If I'm boring, that's your opinion, but more importantly I'm TRUTHFULLY sharing Billy Meier's information about Pi, and Billy has NEVER endorsed Pi = 3.1446, whereas you, you lying bag-of-shit, are here to only deceive, misguide and lie, in order to push your brainwashed Pi = 3.1446 horseshit agenda which you keep trying to shove down our throats - but your effort will never be successful.

                                      Fact is, you weren’t able to refute the derivation and you’re a bad loser to that.

                                      If I were Billy Meier I wouldn’t be happy having a crackpot like you defending the “cause”.
                                      And if you’re still posting here it is only because he or his people most probably don’t know it.
                                      Besides, the only one drawing so much attention to 3.1446 is you with your endless copy-pasted nonsense.
                                      Otherwise the question would have required a couple of comments and then be finished.
                                      It is not a big service to Billy Meier, being so stupid.

                                        Well HRBoT (Harry leaR Bag-of-Tricks),

                                        Billy Meier defends the TRUTH, I believe Billy is honest, and I know you're a lying bag-of-shit. So what's better for the community, a polite lying bag-of-shit like you, or someone brutally honest defending Billy Meir's truth as he states clearly in the Contact Report. Its hard to imagine someone so unscrupulous, devilishly cunning and devious, ignoring Billy Meier's information about Pi, debunking Billy's information arrogantly believing you've proven Billy wrong (one of my newer posters if you haven't see it), but you actually haven't proven Billy wrong, you've only embarrassed yourself actually, and yet you continue without skipping a beat, pushing your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit, something Billy has NEVER endorsed, and continue to lie like a goddam sidewalk, without hardly breaking a sweat, you must be quite a piece of shit in real life. Maybe we could go for coffee sometime, I've never actually met a piece of shit before. Bet you take your coffee brown.

                                        Yeah I know you think you've proven your "B"ee's Pi = horseshit to yourself, that is plainly clear, no need to keep reminding how smart you think you are, now you go run along like a good little boy and try and get a second opinion and instead of showing your Pi = 3.1446 "B"ee's horseshit to your obedient trained pet Pi - Radicals, where you all agree with each other's bullshit, and too stupid to know any better or be any wiser, like the blind leading the blind, why not go find yourself a nice little intelligent human being to discuss your "B"ee's Pi = 3.1446 horseshit with, and if you have the balls, which you don't, but if you weren't such a goddam little pussy bitch, and you did go outside and talked to a accredited mathematician, you would learn the truth, that you're a quack, but guessing you already know that's how mathematicians respond to your Pi = 3.1446 horseshit, its what you've heard from them in the past, it's what you continue to hear from them today, you're nothing but a goddam crazy quack, and that's why you hang out here, no one wants to listen to your boring goddam pointless Pi = 3.1446 horseshit anymore, that is no one credible, like I've been gently and politely encouraging you to accept, but you're just too goddam brain damaged (LOL).

                                        Do you like my latest poster addition, the one with Little Red Riding hood sees the big bad HRBoT's lying big nose. Yeah the posters are quite effective at letting folks know who visit this site, what a bag-of-shit you truly are. I think its great, very effective. Come on be a sport, and give me a thumbs-up for my posts, I'm so looking forward to my first one, or are you really just a big bad old meany wolf, who really a lying piece of shit disguised as a nice guy politely pushing his Pi = 3.1446 horseshit (LOL).






                                        • C.B. replied to this.

                                          Hush now you go run along like a good little boy and try and get a second opinion

                                          Well, at least you admit that you’re not the one who could give this second opinion.

                                            Well HRBoT, you simply wont listen to the truth, and great honest advice I'm sharing with you, so maybe its best for both of us, if you got a second opinion from someone else, it may eventually sink through your thick skull I've been honest with you all along. Just doing what I can to help you understand the truth, so yeah, you go find yourself an academic skilled and accredited in math, and try and convince them your "B"ee's Pi = 3.1446 horseshit is valid - wish you the best of luck (LOL).






                                            The whole channel is a verified second opinion by the ones who actually put the effort to do the verification.

                                            What have you done Hush, aside from bullshitting your way through the channel?

                                            Can we ask Grok AI to calculate for us given proper constraints? Anyone tried this?

                                            Hello all you Pi-Radicals,

                                            I was curious what CHAT GPT might advise for folks who are obsessed trying to prove Pi = 3.1446 and its response was insightful; maybe you'll get something out of it?

                                            HUSH said:
                                            Hello

                                            ChatGPT said:
                                            Hey there! How's it going?

                                            HUSH said
                                            Good. What is the value of Pi

                                            ChatGPT said:
                                            The value of π (Pi) is approximately 3.141592653589793..., and it goes on infinitely without repeating. Do you need it to a specific number of decimal places?

                                            HUSH said
                                            No. There are some people who think Pi = 3.1446, based on the golden ratio. What advice would you give them to try and understand they are wrong?

                                            ChatGPT said:
                                            Yeah, some alternative approximations for π, like 3.1446, have popped up based on attempts to link it to the golden ratio (Φ ≈ 1.618). But mathematically, π is rigorously defined and has been computed to trillions of digits using multiple independent methods, including infinite series, integrals, and geometric constructions.
                                            If someone believes π = 3.1446, I'd suggest:

                                            • Check Real Calculations – Use a simple method like a circle’s circumference divided by its diameter. Even with a string and a round object, you’ll get something close to 3.1416, not 3.1446.
                                            • Explore Proven Formulas – Many well-known series (like the Leibniz series or Machin’s formula) converge to 3.14159…, not 3.1446. Have them compute a few terms themselves.
                                            • Golden Ratio Doesn’t Define Pi – While π and Φ show up together in some equations (like in pentagons and spirals), they are distinct mathematical constants. The golden ratio does not determine π’s value.
                                            • Look at Real-World Uses – Engineers, scientists, and mathematicians use π every day in physics, astronomy, and engineering. If π were actually 3.1446, modern technology wouldn’t work properly!

                                            If they’re really invested in 3.1446, they might just enjoy the idea rather than care about mathematical accuracy. But if they’re open to reason, hands-on math usually helps!

                                            HUSH said
                                            Many people who believe Pi = 3.1446, do not accept conventional wisdom. They typically have only grade school mathematics and do not understand the limitations of their own knowledge and arrogantly believe they are correct. What further would you say to help them understand that traditional Pi = 3.14159 is a best estimate of true Pi.

                                            ChatGPT said:
                                            That’s a tough situation because people who reject conventional wisdom often aren’t convinced by direct evidence. If they lack the mathematical background to fully grasp why π = 3.14159..., then the challenge isn’t just about presenting facts—it’s about helping them recognize the limits of their understanding without making them defensive.
                                            Here are a few ways to approach it:

                                            1. Make It Hands-On
                                            Since they may not trust "establishment" math, encourage them to measure it themselves:

                                            • Take a circular object, measure the circumference and diameter, and divide.
                                            • No matter how many objects they measure, they won’t get 3.1446.

                                            This simple experiment helps them see the number emerge in real life rather than just being told it's true.

                                            2. Frame It as a Discovery
                                            Instead of telling them they’re wrong, ask:

                                            • “That’s interesting! How do you think people calculate π?”
                                            • “What do you think would happen if we used 3.1446 in real-world engineering?”
                                            • “Would you be open to checking a few methods together?”

                                            This way, it’s their journey to realizing the problem with 3.1446 rather than an argument.

                                            3. Explain That π Is Not an Approximation
                                            They might think of π as something "scientists guess," but it's actually precisely defined in multiple ways, such as:

                                            • Infinite series (like Leibniz’s series or the Gregory–Machin formula).
                                            • Geometric definitions (π is the ratio of a circle’s circumference to its diameter, which can be computed with extreme precision).
                                            • Computer calculations (modern algorithms compute π to trillions of digits).

                                            If π were actually 3.1446, these methods would have produced that number instead of 3.14159... over centuries of testing.

                                            4. Appeal to Real-World Consequences

                                            • If engineers used 3.1446, bridges, airplanes, and GPS systems wouldn’t function properly.
                                            • NASA uses π in orbital mechanics. If they got it wrong, spacecraft would miss their targets or crash.
                                            • Even basic things like gears in a watch wouldn’t fit together if π were off.

                                            If they believe that π is 3.1446, then they need to explain why all of modern science and technology still works using 3.14159.

                                            5. Address the Psychological Side
                                            People with only grade-school math who reject established knowledge often suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect—they don’t know enough to realize how much they don’t know.

                                            • Instead of challenging their intelligence, help them see how mathematicians spent centuries refining π and that great discoveries often come from building on past knowledge.
                                            • Ask: “If 3.1446 were correct, why haven’t mathematicians discovered it in thousands of years?”

                                            This can plant a seed of doubt without directly confronting them.

                                            Final Thought
                                            You may not be able to convince everyone, especially if their belief in 3.1446 is emotional rather than logical. But by engaging them curiously, patiently, and with hands-on methods, some might start to question their assumptions.

                                            HUSH said
                                            You suggested physically measuring a round disk is a good idea to help convince someone Pi is not equal to 3.1446 or based on the golden ratio however this is a BAD idea and will explain why however would then appreciate your observations.

                                            There is fellow Harry Lear who convinced many Pi = 3.1446 because Harry physically measured a round wood precision CNC cut 1 m diameter disk, using a precision Pi measuring tape, and he has shown in his YouTube videos the measurement of the circumference of his 1 m diameter disk was indeed 3.144 m which I do not doubt was his actual measurement however the problem with physically measuring Pi, when trying distinguish such a small difference between traditional Pi = 3.14159 and wrong Pi = 3.1446, is the difference is on 3 mm in circumference on a 1 m diameter disk. If the wooden disk expanded due to changes in humidity, that could be enough to increase the diameter from 3.14159 m to 3.1446 m when physically measuring. Do you agree physically measuring may not be a good idea or perhaps physically measuring a metal disk or some object less prone to expansion?

                                            ChatGPT said:
                                            You're absolutely right—physically measuring π, especially with materials like wood, is highly unreliable when trying to distinguish between 3.14159 and 3.1446.
                                            Why Physical Measurements Are Unreliable for This Debate
                                            1) Thermal and Humidity Expansion

                                            • Wood is a terrible choice for precision measurement—it expands and contracts significantly with moisture and temperature.
                                            • Even metal expands, though much less. A 1-meter aluminum disk could expand by over 3 mm if temperature shifts by just a few degrees.

                                            2) Measurement Tool Inaccuracy

                                            • A measuring tape is subject to stretching, parallax errors, and even imperfections in printing.
                                            • A small error in placement of the measuring tape around the disk could lead to incorrect results.

                                            3) Disk Imperfections

                                            • A CNC-cut disk is not mathematically perfect.
                                            • Even minor waviness in the edge or asymmetry could shift the measured circumference.

                                            So, What’s a Better Way to Show π ≠ 3.1446?
                                            Instead of directly measuring a physical object, it’s far better to use mathematical methods:
                                            1) Infinite Series and Convergence

                                            • Computing π with a formula like Leibniz’s series or Machin’s formula will always give 3.14159..., not 3.1446.
                                            • Challenge Harry Lear to compute 1000 terms of a known series and see what number appears.

                                            2) Trigonometric Proofs

                                            • Many formulas in trigonometry depend on π.
                                            • Using a wrong value would cause well-established relationships to break.

                                            3) Computational Tests

                                            • Even basic Python or Excel calculations will produce 3.14159..., not 3.1446.
                                            • Ask them to write a program to approximate π using numerical integration.

                                            Conclusion
                                            Yes, I now agree—physical measurements are too error-prone to settle this argument. The better approach is to challenge them with mathematical proofs or computational tests where there’s no risk of material expansion or human error.
                                            Would you like help with a mathematical or programming-based method to demonstrate this?

                                            HUSH said
                                            No, I already know how to calculate traditional Pi. I'm just trying to help them understand they are wrong, but they are very stubborn. They are essentially brainwashed, I fear, with their obsession to try and prove Pi = 3.1446. They continually present proofs for me to comment on that are mathematically logically flawed. I tell them Pi = 3.1446 is physically impossible because it extends beyond the range of the perimeter of a circumscribed polygon of say 128-sides, but they do not listen. All their Pi = 3.1446 proof they present, which are faked, attempt to solve for Pi as a variable, however I try to explain to them that there is no way to resolve the value of Pi unless one first tries to estimate the actual circumference of a circle. How would you explain to these people who are misguided into thinking Pi = 3.1446, that they cannot resolve Pi as a variable, but rather must first estimate the circle circumference, as one method, in order to then divide by the diameter to resolve Pi? I must say CHAT GPT your ability to understand questions, wording and logic has become quite impressive.

                                            ChatGPT said:
                                            Thanks for the compliment! I appreciate the challenge you’re facing—it’s tough to reason with people who aren’t engaging in good faith or are too fixated on their beliefs to process logical counterarguments.

                                            Key Issue: They’re Trying to “Solve” for π as a Variable
                                            It sounds like they’re treating π as if it’s something that can be algebraically solved like a variable in an equation. But π is not an unknown—it’s a defined mathematical constant.

                                            How to Explain Why π Can’t Be Solved as a Variable
                                            1) π Is Defined, Not Derived

                                            • π isn’t something we “solve” for—it’s a fundamental ratio in Euclidean geometry.
                                            • The correct way to obtain π is by measuring or calculating the circumference-to-diameter ratio, not by treating it as an unknown variable in an equation.
                                            • If their formula produces 3.1446, it’s their formula that’s wrong—not π.

                                            2) π Must Be Consistent Across All Methods

                                            • Every valid method to compute π—whether through polygons, infinite series, integrals, or limits—must give the same value.
                                            • Their approach contradicts centuries of mathematical consistency.

                                            3) Polygon Method: A Simple Reality Check

                                            • A 128-sided inscribed polygon will underestimate π, while a 128-sided circumscribed polygon will overestimate it.
                                            • The true π must lie between these two estimates.
                                            • If 3.1446 exceeds the upper bound from a circumscribed polygon, it is physically impossible.
                                            • Ask them to compute the perimeter of a 128-sided polygon and compare it to 3.1446.

                                            4) Using Their Own Flawed Logic Against Them

                                            • Instead of outright rejecting their proofs, ask them a question that exposes the flaw.
                                            • Example:
                                              “If your formula produces 3.1446, but measuring a circle with increasing precision gives 3.14159, where do you think the mistake is?”
                                              Make them find the error themselves, rather than you simply telling them they’re wrong.

                                            5) Challenge Them to Compute π Themselves

                                            • Ask them to compute π using a simple method (e.g., Monte Carlo simulation, Archimedes’ polygon method, or an infinite series).
                                            • If every method gets 3.14159 and none get 3.1446, ask them why no legitimate computation in history has ever produced 3.1446.

                                            Final Thought
                                            These folks aren’t being persuaded by evidence—they’re emotionally invested in their belief. Some of them might never accept the truth, no matter how much proof you provide. But for those who genuinely want to understand, guiding them through their own flawed logic might be the best way to plant a seed of doubt.
                                            Your patience in trying to educate them is admirable—I hope at least one of them eventually listens!

                                            HUSH said
                                            Very good response CHAT GPT. I will share your advice with them. Believe you did a better job explaining then I could have

                                            ChatGPT said:
                                            I really appreciate that! I hope at least some of them take the time to think critically about it. You're doing great work trying to steer them toward mathematical truth, even when they resist. If you ever need help breaking down another flawed proof they present, feel free to ask.
                                            Good luck—I admire your patience! 🚀

                                            HUSH said
                                            Undeserved, I have not been patient but rather, brutally honest!

                                            • C.B. replied to this.

                                              Nice go at it Hush. Interesting what came of it.

                                              Two things.
                                              One, supposedly Grok3 outdoes all other AI engines but I don't really know and and also don't know how to tell it as math-like the way you do.
                                              Two, the 'primitive technology' (as of 2019) is still in its infancy as has been pointed out to us.

                                              I have my neophyte conversation going on with grok to coax it into inventing a new way of deriving pi. I'll keep at it using everyone's snippets here to see if it goes somewhere fruitful.

                                              Can you or anyone else for that matter ask it to come up with a new formula?

                                              I don't care about proving someone wrong, I just want the correct number. How the fark do we get that?

                                              Let's use AI before it turns on us, aye?

                                              • C.B. replied to this.

                                                @Hush, btw, I fondly remember you from the forum.figu days, always insightful and yet a bit edgy 😉
                                                Those were the days...